Is laser therapy considered "Alternative"?

discoclub · Last edited by discoclub on Wed Jul 04, 2007 11:06 am; edited 2 times in total

I invite discussion of LAser based Hyperthermia therapies for Cancer Treatment.

The Lasers used in these procedures are not like the lasers of the past which were used for Excising tissue or known as Laser scalpels. This discussion involves the slow application of heat to the interior of a tumor to cause the cells inside of the tumor to die.

Please feel free to post any questions you may have regarding Lasers as this thread develops. I am following the development of Laser Devices used for Cancer treatments and also the actual protocols involved in the treatments.

I believe that Lasers will one day be as common in Cancer therapy as Chemo is today.

In some countries Laser treatments are the norm rather than Chemo, radiation and Surgery. And these countries are experiencing great sucess with their treatments.

These posts may get a little long.... i will not apologize for that.. It takes quite a few words to communicate some of these ideas. i will try to keep the language readable by most that have a high school diploma... If you need a point cleared up please ask. There are no dumb questions.

Please post your questions often. If you have no questions, please post to let me know if you find the thread interesting.

Thank You.

discoclub · Last edited by discoclub on Wed Jul 04, 2007 11:09 am; edited 1 time in total

Laser therapy is proven to work. Laser therapy KILLS cancer. Thermal Energy Kills cells is as well known as any other medical fact. A Laser kills cells of all types quickly, efficiently and usually without fail.

Laser energy is as effective on killing Cancer. It Kills all cells. There is no Cell-line specificity. No sorting out staging protocols. No Antibody specific antigen therapy. And of course virtually NO risk of making the situation worse!

Laser therapy has been proven many times over in clinical trials and also in practice the world over. Why is it not used more often? My theory is simply that there is more money in the "Gold Standard" of cancer treatment.

discoclub · Last edited by discoclub on Wed Jul 04, 2007 11:28 am; edited 1 time in total

I am going to start this discussion.. Please post your thoughts.

How does a laser kill cells? A laser can be used to kill the cells inside of a cancerous tumor by applying thermal energy (heat) to the cells. The precise application of heat to the cells inside the tumor and not to other body parts is where this treatment excels.

Once the cell is heated, The membrane bursts through a process known as "Protein denaturation", and the DNA is simply shredded. Thus the cell is simply dead. What once was a cell becomes a slightly gelatinous blob of water with a few minerals and proteins floating in it.

Once all the cells within a tumor have been heated and killed there simply are no more cancerous cells being reproduced.

discoclub · Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 3:09 am Post subject: Safety of Lasers in Oncology

Lasers in oncology have a near perfect record of safety. Remember Lasers ARE used in many countries for cancer management and research. The Chinese are so far ahead of western medicine in their adoption of lasers for cancer treatment.

I am still researching... And I invite discussion positive or negative regarding Lasers for therapy.

However, of all the clinical trials and articles I have found so far, I can find no significant damage ever caused by LAser therapy.

In other posts I wll discuss how Lasers can be made safely and VERY cost effective.

Later, I hope to disclose that Cancer is being treated sucessfully with extremely low costs. How low? Possibly, your lunch expense today will pay for someone to walk out of a clinic in China fully CURED! And, with little likelihood of recurrence. Or, at least a much lower likelihood than the "Gold standard"

You are likely asking..... Am I A Nut? Not at all.. IF you are interested I will post fully peer reviewed information showing you these treatments. I will explain the designs. I will also explain the bio-chemistry if desired.

The evidence is clear that Cancer IS being KILLED in other countries.

Does anyone want to hear more?

discoclub

I am seeking information regarding Laser Therapy oncologists. I can find it being used in old clinical trials with great success, however, I simply cannot find any practicing oncologists in the USA.

The two most notable physicians i have found are Dr. K. Dowlatshahi of Chicago area? And also Dr. Steven Harms inventor of the Rodeo system.

If anyone knows how to contact either of these physicians or any other practicing physician or researcher involved in utilizing laser devices for Cancer treatment, please forward that information to me.

JFK · Regular Joined: 01 Mar 2007 Posts: 10

That may have been the most painful reading ever.

Laser have been used in surgery for a long time, what you are saying in nothing new.

It is also well known that lasers kill stuff, heat stuff, and sets stuff on fire.

Lasers are much like a scalpel that cauterizes the cut, nothing more.

It still needs to be in close proximity to the cancer.

What I do find interesting in new technology, is using Ultrasound energy to kill cancer without the need for a insision. This may become a great new surgery free therapy for cancer.

discoclub

Actually, what I am discussing is very different from the traditional approaches of lasers. You are talking about lasers being used as a surgical instrument.

I am not talking about them being used to excise tissue. I am discussing the SLOW application of thermal energy to slowly induce cellular death inside of a tumor. This slow infusion of heat is only to the inside of the tumor, not to any other body parts. The process is minimally invasive as well.

This has been done only in limited applications and has always been successful. The studies have been done and the practice is used in many countries.

discoclub · Last edited by discoclub on Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:05 pm; edited 1 time in total

Are you referring to microwave energy or ultrasound? ultrasound generally does not have enough energy transmission to effect a cellular volume. There have been some limited tests done, but I have not found any significant Cancer breakthroughs. There is one that has had some acceptance, but it seems to be only used for prostate problems. Not much else has been written about for other Cancers. Please post what you may have found.

Microwave technology is also very interesting. However, microwaves are very difficult to control. Microwave equipment is also very dangerous and very expensive.

There is one true pioneer of Microwave technology. His name is Dr. Cheung. (Canada) He has harnessed microwave energy through a process called Adaptive Phase Array (APA) technology. Dr. Cheung founded the Celsion company a few years ago. However, after years of research with Dr. Cheung's Microfocus 1000 and very sucessful clinical trials for treating Cancer, the board of directors has chosen to NOT follow the microwave application to kill cancer. The company has decided to pursue the profits of creating Drugs to control cancer.

You can Google for more info. Or follow some of these links for more info.

http://www.mdatechnology.net/outreach/tech_update.aspx?art=5183

http://www.defensetechbriefs.com/content/view/993/36/

The technology is very exciting certainly, but multimillion dollar equipment will always be at the mercy of those who own the equipment and their pursuit of profits will always be tied to that ownership.

JFK · Regular Joined: 01 Mar 2007 Posts: 10

Yeah I was referring to Ultrasound,

Here is some info on it

A new High Intensity Focused Ultrasound (HIFU) treatment has been announced for the treatment of prostate cancer. The procedure uses ultrasound to destroy deep-seated tissue without affecting the surrounding healthy tissue.

The manufacturers of the system, UKHIFU, claim the time for patient recovery after HIFU treatment is significantly less than other therapies like radical prostatectomy. Recovery involves wearing a simple self managed catheter for a short period of time after treatment, and patients typically return to a normal lifestyle almost immediately after the 2 - 3 hour procedure. It is very much a same-day or out patient programme.

The Sonablate 500 system has approval in Europe for the treatment of prostate diseases (including prostate cancer, benign prostatic hyperplasia and prostatitis). There are currently 35 units being used in medical institutions around the world.

The HIFU therapy allows the clinician to get a live image of the prostate and cancerous tumor, then target and kill the tumor with a beam of clean ultrasound energy, which effectively destroys the cancerous tissue without affecting the surrounding healthy tissue. HIFU energy works like a magnifying glass and sunlight. Using a magnifying glass, you can focus energy of the sun and concentrate it over a focus point while allowing safe and harmless energy transfer over the entire course of that beam until it reaches the point of concentration.

The therapy uses an instrument called the Sonablate(R) 500. Using a probe inserted into the patient's rectum, ultrasonic beams are focused onto the cancerous region. Lesions are created side-by-side until the entire desired volume of the prostate is treated. HIFU has the potential to achieve this by virtue of the size of the target lesion that it creates, and works by focusing a pulse of high energy ultrasound waves onto single location about the size of a grain of rice.

The delivery of this energy to such a small area results in an increase in temperature to a point where the lipids (fats) in the cell membrane melt and the proteins denature. A reproducible but small volume of tissue destruction occurs. The distribution of these target lesions is under the control of the clinician. During the planning phase of the treatment, ultrasound is used to delineate the prostate in two dimensions. Targeting can be planned in order to avoid the urinary sphincter, rectum, and possibly the neurovascular bundles (as preservation of these may preserve erectile function). Once the treatment plan is established the treatment is both driven and monitored by a computer program within the HIFU delivery system.

discoclub

JFK,

Have you been treated by HIFU? If so, please discuss your experience.

brainman

Discoclub, how does the laser get to the tumor without going through other tissue? Maybe with skin cancers it wound be possible.
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discoclub

Brainman,

Great question. The laser energy is delived directly to the core of the tumor via fiberoptic cables. The fiberoptics are tiny requiring little more invasiveness than a common needle biopsy. First a common 18ga PC needle is inserted into the tumor. Then the fiberoptic is inserted into the needle. The needle is slightly withdrawn leaving the fiberoptics in place. The laser energy is then transmitted into the ceter of the tumor. As the laser energy contacts tissue the energy is converted to thermal energy. The thermal energy creates cellular death and also cauterizes and coagulates the vascuar structures as well as the blood therein.

discoclub

As far as depth of tumor?

In the protocol that I desire to develop, you are correct that surface and subcutaneous tumors would be most easily affected. However, any tumor that can have a common 18 Ga PC needle could theoretically be killed with this procedure. Thus the protcol can be incorporated into laporoscopic procedures to include Tumors much deeper into the body.

Now that I have had a bit of feedback, I will begin including the Clinical research done around the world.

For Brevity, If I can I will simply post a link.

discoclub

Here is an abstract of a clinical trial done in England over ten years ago.

http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1993SPIE.1882..202A

Note this was one of the first of this type of procedures ever done.

Here is another study done more recently. This is the complete clinical paper and is very technical. Note: The lasers used in this trial are High Powered very expensive medical lasers. These lasers are used more for high speed ablation of tissue. (Sort of like using dynamite to blast a hole in a mountain) Rather than the slow addition of necrotizing heat using simple designed low powered lasers that are generally being discussed here.

The following link is to a report done in China. This reports the findings of Photocoagulation using a very low power diode laser and includes the images of the resected livers. This report exemplifies the type of slow heating and thermal necrosis discussed througout this thread.

http://www.wjgnet.com/1007-9327/9/2350.pdf

discoclub

Here is an article from the USA ( Galveston, TX) That supports the idea that slowly heating tumors kills them more effectively than a quick dose of high power laser energy. (Rabbit studies)

http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/cgi-bin/abstract/112129149/ABSTRACT

Here is another recent study in the USA (Human) That shows the promise of low powered laser photocoagulation for Breast Cancer.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0CYD/is_13_35/ai_63993093

And here is another Breast Cancer study (Human) Chicago, Il

http://archsurg.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/135/11/1345?ck=nck

Another abstract involving Liver Mets (Human) 2006 Italy

http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content?content=10.1080/02841860500438029

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