Advanced Breast Cancer/good treatments

annerules · New User Joined: 13 Dec 2007 Posts: 3 Location: Canada

It's December 13th, 2 days ago my Mom called me to tell me that the Oncologist told her that she has terminal cancer and that they were going to hopefully start treatments soon.

The problem arises once I calm down and start to ask questions about her life expectancy. There is no radiation offered because the radiologist feels that she is not properly displaying the symptoms. The Chemo therapy cocktail that is offered is also not explained as to whether it is hormonal or other. Just that they will offer her 4 months of treatment to alleviate the breathing problems. So, they are alleviating her breathing problems but not trying to "cure" her of cancer?

I gather that my Mom has advanced breast cancer which has spread to her right lung. When discovered in the spring- it was 5 cm and since the biopsy (which all three were gong shows) has enlarged to 8 cm. Does that mean that it's in her lympnode system? 30% of the people that receive the type of treatment that they are recommending to her respond and.... we all know the rest. Am I going to lose her in 4 -6 months to this terrible beast because the oncologist and radiologist feel that she has reached her life expentancy and should be happy that they are alleviating her breathing problem and "keeping her comfortable"?

I have asked several questions and am quite frustrated! I was not in the room when the doctor gave his diagnosis and he cannot infringe on her rights by telling me details. She is 79 - and up until this year has been quite active and often mistaken for 60. They just got back from a trip to Ireland in the spring!!!

From what the different cancer diagnosis and treatment web sites say - my Mom has stage 4 cancer-what is the prognosis for stage 4 cancer? Is this it? All the web sites generalize and I gather that cancer diagnosis' are based on previous cancer stats.

I want her to at least have the option to "live with cancer". That would be more tolerable than what I've reiterated earlier.

I am partially venting but, am seeking views and opinions. We are born to die-but, we all die trying to live - right?

Please-someone shine some light on me.

Anne-rules

brainman

Hi Anne, I am very sorry about your mother's cancer. Unfortunately, you do not have enough information to really go on. The doctor does have a responsibility to maintain your mother's medical information private. The way around that is to have her name you as her health care surrogate. That way, you can have full access to her medical information.

If your hunch is right... the cancer is a grade 4 and the doctors only recommend palliative care... it does mean that their objective is to make her last months a little easier on her. They do not expect the treatment to "cure" her, just control the complications caused by it.

When was your mother's breast cancer diagnosed?

You and your mother are in my thoughts and prayers.
_________________
Jim
Site Administrator and long-term cancer survivor
1992 Astrocytoma grade 2, left motor strip
2005 Recurrence this time said to be an Oligodendoglioma grade 3, same location.
My Story Part 1: http://cancerforums.net/viewtopic.php?p=7350
My Story Part 2: http://cancerforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=8029
Blog http://jimhawkinsport.blogspot.com/

cjago · Regular Joined: 14 Jan 2006 Posts: 42

Anne - if your mother has a metastasis in her lung, she is definitely Stage IV (and yes, it probably got there via her lymphatic system, and she may have micro-deposits, which can't be "seen" by scans because they are too small, in other places). Stage IV (ie metastatic) breast cancer is not curable. On the other hand, it can, potentially, be lived with for a long time; I have been metastatic for 5 years so far, although I am now getting sicker.

How well your mother might do depends on a lot of facts that you don't have, such as how aggressive the cancer is, and whether it is hormone-positiive. Also, her general state of health.

Hormone treatment is different from chemotherapy and all the sorts I can think of for a post-menopausal woman come in the form of pills.

Basically, any form of treatment for metastatic breast cancer is palliative; to slow down (perhaps even temporarily reverse) growth and spread, and to relieve symptoms.

Best of luck.
_________________
adenocarcinoma of the breast, now widely metastatic (stomach, liver, pelvis, pancreas, bones, skin)
survived 11 years so far

Cindy · Senior User Joined: 01 Dec 2004 Posts: 145

Unfortunately, in our society...as it has been proven, when a person reaches elderly status, sometimes they are not treated as well as they should be. It seems that sometimes they are just written off as being at the end of life and no one tries to fight to hard for them. That is a shame. Your mom is stage 4, but that shouldn't stop them from fighting a littler harder for her life. If I were you, I would take my my (who is 82, by the way) to a different doctor. Try to find one who will fight harder to save her. I know that they say that when one reaches stage 4, there is no cure and there is nothing they can do but make one comfortable. Well, I have read of women who were stage 4, who are in remission, so it is not impossible to get her there. You need new docs. Sending thoughts and prayers to your mom.
_________________
Where is the cure???
www.truefacesofbreastcancer.org
www.diepbreastreconstruction.org
www.bcsisters.org/forum
www.mybreastcancerstore.com

Barbara K · Regular Joined: 11 Apr 2007 Posts: 11

Rather than have chemo again, I went on the hormonal treatment with Tamoxifen, low-cholesterol diet and daily exercise on my recumbent bike.
I'm now up to 10 miles a day.

As far as I'm concerned, using chemo is like using a sledgehammer instead of a fly-swatter to kill a fly. Sure, you kill the fly but there's a lot of other damage involved from the sledgehammer blow. And, what if you miss the fly? You still have all that damage.

I had chemo in 2005 and then nine weeks of daily radiation. Both the chemo and radiation accelerated bone loss and I had to have a total knee replacement in 2006. Then in April 2007, I was told I was stage 4 terminal cancer because of the cancer cells found in my pleural effusion and that oncologist told me the ONLY treatment for me was chemo.

I went to another oncologist for a second opinion instead. He put me on the Tamoxifen treatment. I added the low-cholesterol diet and exercise program on my own as additional treatment.

May 2007, I had a pleural effusion around my left lung and my left lung was half the size of my right lung. When I would turn around in bed at night I could feel the fluid sloshing around like a water balloon beneath my rib cage.

During the first two weeks on the Tamoxifen, there was a tremendous amount of back, chest, arm and joint pain all over my body. Gradually, the pain settled down and finally went away after the first month. By the second month, I no longer felt the fluid sloshing around like a water balloon.

October 2007, I was X-Rayed again. I no longer have the pleural effusion and am currently in remission and cancer-free. I will continue to take Tamoxifen and remain on the low-cholesterol diet and exercise program.

My original oncologist gave me a prognosis in April 2007 of one to two years without chemo treatment and two to four years with chemo and he was looking at me as if I were already dead.

I intend to survive for another thirty years and laugh in his face.

My Mom had colon cancer. Her colon ruptured and the cancer had spread to her lymph nodes. Her physicians gave her a prognosis of six months. She took the first three sessions of chem and then stopped the chemo because the treatments made her too ill.

Mom lived for another 13 years and the only reason she died was because after my Dad died, Mom stopped taking her insulin. Two years later when we found out and got her back on insulin it was too late because she sustained too much damage to her organs from uncontrolled diabetes.

Thank you for your concern.

Barbara K.

Ammy8 · New User Joined: 21 Dec 2007 Posts: 2

I have some information that you will want to research. You can help your mom as long as your mom wants to live, and I would guess she really does,
I know she is loved. I am glad to share what I have with you or anyone that may want it. You can e-mail me at: Ammy_987@yahoo.com.

God bless you Anne, you are asking the right questions with the right motives. That is the sort of Integrity it takes to win the war on cancer.
Knowledge is the key and it does exist if you know where to look.

Thanks, Ammy

brainman

Ammy8, I am sorry if I am wrong... I do not want to accuse an innocent person... but usually people who post messages inviting others to go off the board in order to get information are up to no good. I strongly encourage you to post any information you have.

To others, think twice... if not more time... before going off of the board for side conversations. The reason for this board is for your protection; information you are given here gets to be reviewed be other members who can speak out (as I am doing now) if they have any concerns about the information.

Thanks.
_________________
Jim
Site Administrator and long-term cancer survivor
1992 Astrocytoma grade 2, left motor strip
2005 Recurrence this time said to be an Oligodendoglioma grade 3, same location.
My Story Part 1: http://cancerforums.net/viewtopic.php?p=7350
My Story Part 2: http://cancerforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=8029
Blog http://jimhawkinsport.blogspot.com/

Ammy8 · New User Joined: 21 Dec 2007 Posts: 2

Well, I normally would not ask people to go off the board, but it
seems this lady is asking for information that may help her mother. I did not want to post information or links to info that might be considered spam only to be thrown out of the forum for that would not help anyone. If anyone chooses to email me for more information outside of the forum then that should be their right as it is their right in choosing to be at this forum. How can people help each other if they aren't willing to look at all options?

I understand the importance of keeping the forum free of spammers, but some people have different opinions of what "spam" might be. For instance, it really boils down to each persons perspective. I have a great many links to information that would help families here on this forum, however, should I run the risk of someone not educated in orthomolecular
science reviewing the material and because they happen to be of a different belief, maybe educated only through the medical mainstream, they may not understand the importance of providing for the body at the cellular level. There was actually a senate bill passed in the 90's that prohibits doctors of the mainstream medical from sharing any information
outside of chemicals (drugs), radiation and/or surgery for people suffering from disease. Now that really limits the options for familes when there are proven facts provided by the Nobel prize winning scientists for their discovery. If we limit access to this vital information only because someone may construe sharing links with others here as spam, then
that vehicle is not made available and choices are limited.

The fact is that people are suffering and dying from a lack of knowledge. That is very apparent from the posts at this forum. All I can say is to please help others find the solution they need and deserve. Let them be the judge. I am In SERVICE and want to share what I know with the world, just like the other researchers that have found the scientific
community. The health care crisis that is facing millions can be turned around, what it will take is a new advanced heatlh care program and I am happy to say, that health program is here today. Make the time to learn more.

Thanks Ammy
Ammy_987@yahoo.com

Vee Smith · Moderator Joined: 12 Feb 2006 Posts: 568 Location: UK

Anne-rules - You can always seek a second opinion - not all experts agree on treatment approaches.

Also, as a general point, any breast cancer that has reached stage IV is described as "terminal". It is not a pointer to rapid death. It is the way in which the disease is described. I have been terminal for 4 years and plan to be around for a while longer.

I would encourage you to see if you can get your mother to seek referral to another hospital if at all possible.

annerules · New User Joined: 13 Dec 2007 Posts: 3 Location: Canada

To everyone who has made the effort to answer all of my questions. Your insights and helpful advice have really been very useful.

Mom has a cold now and this I see as a major detriment. The possibility of pneumonia is now looming over her head and might make it harder to treat the cancer itself.

Thank you everyone for the hope that you have offered me. For letting me know that all life is worth saving-even if you are past your prime as defined in this society.

I have arranged a nurse to come in once a week to monitor her blood pressure, take some readings of her health and in general-take some pressure off of my Father and sister who live with her. There are a lot of questions that I have daily-and she is very patient with me when I present my lists...

Thank you again! I will still be keeping an eye on this site for further replies if any do come.

mymaria · Regular Joined: 28 Feb 2008 Posts: 36

annerules,

My wife was diagnosed with STAGE IV metastatic breast cancer in early December. She had lesions/tumors in her brain, skull, spinal lining, spinal column, liver, lymph nodes, and left breast. Though the prognosis was initially grim, no one EVER used the words terminal, palliative... In fact, the primary oncologist responsible for my wife's treatment reminded me that there are no guarantees, but then proceeded to talk about all the advancements and new treatments that have shown promise. He spoke to me about patients who should not have, but are living long after their initial diagnoses. Our oncologist was all about hope, hope and more hope. To top it all off, my wife was also pregnant.

She is now transitioning to enter rehab to go home. The battle is not over, but she is where she is because of God and the medical professionals who go beyond the routine to care for their patients. Just a couple of days ago, after 4-rounds of chemo, 12-straight days of radiation, her PET scan showed no new tumors, in fact, no obvious signs of active soft-tissue cancer at all. She will be taking a 1-2 month break from chemo to strengthen before resuming chemo. Meanwhile, she is taking arimidex daily and infusion of aredia (for bone lesions) once per month.

I will say this again and again, if there is hope, however small or unlikely, then never give up! Tell your mother that! Love your mother and be an advocate as much as possible. Be an educated one, though. Do research on her disease, treatments, etc. Ask your mother if you can have access to medical information so that you can be a better advocate.

If the doctors at the hospital seem uninterested in investigating or trying other options, then I would suggest thinking about getting another opinion elsewhere. Some doctors are slower to the new treatments then others. We were lucky to have one who was always in the forefront of cancer treatment evolution/options.

I am sorry for your mother's diagnosis. But unless your mother has given in, there is hope. Be with her and encourage her. Let her know that you want to be an integral part of her struggles/worries.

Richard
_________________
Dallas, TX

annerules · New User Joined: 13 Dec 2007 Posts: 3 Location: Canada

The doctors had decided to let Mom have a break from chemo after telling her that her tumors in her breasts were no longer there-as well, they were going to start on a different type of cocktail for the tumor in her chest but were going to start that in 2 weeks. Mom was checked into emergency on February 6-it was discovered that her blood sugar levels were through the roof and her potassium levels were through the floor.

In that 2 weeks-the tumor inside her chest flowered. It mastized to the point that it went around her pulmonary, her entire chest and up her spine-whether it had reached her brain yet-they were uncertain.

In the end-we lost her. Mom died on February 15th due to complications arising from the mastization of the cancer. The doctors were unwilling to treat her and she had not received any "proper" treatment in my view. The 2 weeks: that was uncalled for.

I am happy that everyone else has access to these fantastic treatments-but, here in Saskatchewan/Canada-no one seems to know about them and are unwilling to access new ones. But at the same time, I am bitter that none of this applied to my Mother.

Thank you everyone for all your insights and words of hope.

I will pray for you all.

Anne__rules

Vee Smith · Moderator Joined: 12 Feb 2006 Posts: 568 Location: UK

I am so sorry - my deepest condolences.

mymaria · Regular Joined: 28 Feb 2008 Posts: 36

I am very sorry for your loss! It sucks! It all sucks! But if there is a way to continue remembering your mother in the most/best way, is to try to get involved in breast cancer education/policy making/awareness. Since my wife's diagnosis I am feverishly determined to live through and by my wife's battle vs. cancer by being as proactive about cancer awareness, etc.

Help to create something there, so that others are given the treatment that you think your mother should have received.

I am praying for you. And I am sorry.

Richard
_________________
Dallas, TX

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